Here are comments about the various proposals made by people on the Composition Council.

Here are the comments from our readers on the proposal by Ham & Shackelford -- CAPS 494LS ``British Empire, Ancient Empires":

Paula:

Are students given an opportunity to actually revise work as opposed to ``revisiting issues'' (see question #2) for example on papers on which they receive sylistic and content feedback.

Answer to #6 unclear as to how much teaching of writing will occur in classroom.

Jeff:

It wasn't clear to me whether revision was actually going to take place routinely. Under revisions the instructors wrote ... ``Students will be asked to revisit issues in writing assignments they have written on previously and compare their old essays to the new ...'' Does this mean their writing will be compared AND revised?

David

I agree with you, Paula, and Jeff that it is not clear how much revision will be incorporated into the writing exercises. I also agree with Paula's concern that there doesn't seem to be any plans to include writing instruction in the course material. Overall the proposal is sketchy. The inclusion of a syllabus would have been very helpful.

Tom:

Mark me as ``not convinced yet'' for this proposal (again, neither ``approved'' or ``not approved'').

There is certainly no problem with frequency of writing here. But it is not clear where there is opportunity for revision based on feedback in this course. I'd need to see more.

Comments from readers about Milofsky/Flack, ``Community Organization in Northern Ireland''

Paula:

Approved

Jeff

Intensive writing with rapid feedback. My only concern -- is five 5-page papers substantial enough to satisfy W2 criteria?

David

This proposal is interesting, because the instructors are trying to achieve a very similar purpose to what I try to achieve in the lab sections of my electronics courses. At one point last year I considered proposing my courses as W2s. At that time the Composition Council used my courses as examples in a discussion that focused on what constitutes a valid W2 proposal. Like Milofsky and Flack, I like to focus on "just-in-time" writing in preference to the revising process. I would like my students to learn how to put down the right words organized in the right way the first time around. Everyone seemed to agree that this is a valuable skill for engineers and scientists (and perhaps others) to learn, but at they same time they felt that this form of writing does not meet the intentions and spirit of the writing program, primarily because it does not include opportunities for revision. I understand now that revision is a key skill that the writing program is trying to promote, so I have not pursued the matter further. Like other members of my department who also teach this style of writing, I do not wish to spend extra time on revision cycles. Also, there are other opportunities for EE students to fulfill their W2 requirements.

At any rate, I would like to approve this course, but it is missing an element that the writing program sees as vitally important. (And I also agree it is important!) Therefore, I would deny approval unless Milofsky and Flack incorporate opportunities for revision.

Tom

This is a mixed bag. There are some really strong aspects to this proposal. Specifically, frequency is great. Also, writing to learn looks really good. But I don't think that this course meets the criteria for opportunity for revision based on feedback. Based on the proposal, there doesn't seem to be any projects where the students make a draft, get feedback, and use the feedback to revise the paper.

Carl argues that the "expectations of the writing program's writing critera are at odds with the expectations of writing in sociology and anthropology for field notes." I disagree with this. The writing program is _fine_ with this kind of writing, which I would classify under the "writing to learn" part. These field notes sound a lot like lab notebooks that we keep in physics -- a very important aspect of writing, and I applaud them for teaching this to their students.

But there is another type of writing which is for more formal venues, such as books or journal articles, and I would expect that sociologists and anthropologists do this kind of writing as well. Consequently, their students need to learn this type of writing, which necessarily requires feedback and revision.

As an analogy, we have a junior-level lab course in Physics. Like in this class, the students keep a lab notebook where they are expected to write down everything as they go, and we specifically tell them not to revise anything. But, they also write two formal papers based on the experiments (modeled on journal articles), for which they receive feedback and the opportunity to revise.

If there were even one paper in Carl's course where the students were given feedback and the opportunity to revise a paper, I'd be more amenable.

1. Ham/Shackleford--I would also like to hear about how much instruction of writing will occur in the classroom. 2. Milofsky/Flack--Yea* *I appreciate the comments I have read from Tom and David. I think what convinced me to include this course as a W2 is the degree to which teaching of writing appears to be happening. Even though revision is not a part of this course the emphasis which the course places on the process of writing and the mechanics of field notes, etc is significant. Also, as described in the proposal, the writing portion of this course seems to be extensive and intense.

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